Max Klare, Jelani Thurman and Ohio State’s tight end depth: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Keenan Bailey is excited about Ohio State’s 2025 tight end room and he has good reason to be.

Even with the loss of Gee Scott Jr., Bailey returns three players with quality experience while throwing a high-end transfer on top. There is a chance that Bailey has more options at tight end than any other assistant coach has at their respective position groups.

On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis discuss Ohio State’s tight ends and their potential impact in 2025.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:13.025)

Welcome back to book. talk I’m Stephen means that’s the fuck rice Nick and that is Andrew Gillis and we are talking about what might be the actual deepest room on the team in terms of guys who have proven and have played significant football and significant football games. It’s also probably the least shiny position just given the way it’s used in Ohio State’s offense. It’s tight end building. You got G Scott who left

They bring back Will Casmeric, who’s played the most snaps of anybody, Bennett Christian, also played over 200 snaps, Jelani Thurman, who is the most intriguing prospect in that room. And then of course you bring in Max Clair, the Purdue transfer who had 51 catches last year.

Stephen Means (01:18.041)

I’m sure we’ve all gone back and listened to what Keenan Bailey had to say about his room. Stefan, I love the way he was talking about the versatility of his room because all four of these guys are very, very different people. And because of that, there is room for all four of them to have a legitimate role in 2025.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:37.038)

And I think that’s why it makes sense that after Max Claire joined this team, that, you know, guys like. Well, Casmeric, Ben and Christian Johnny Thurman go down list why they stayed right. Like on paper, think we’d even had discussions when Max Claire first transferred of, okay, which, which one of these guys is going to leave. But when you look at what they can do and the roles that are going to be available to them, I think there’s no denying that this is one of the deeper rooms.

You know, on the roster. So I like the versatility of this room. just. The center for the conversation today for me is going to really center around the fact that like these guys aren’t going to have a ton of catches. Like I don’t think anyone’s stat line is going to, you know, pop out the box score this season, but they can do a lot of different things with the way they use these tight ends and they use a lot of these tight ends. And I think it’s why it’s maybe one of the more.

underrated position groups in the Big Ten because I’m not sure like you Max Claire at least has name recognition but is he gonna have the numbers to be an all Big Ten guy again? I don’t know maybe maybe not but but he’s even the only one that’s gonna contend yet I think it’s one of the deeper tight end rooms in the Big Ten because of the different things they can do so it’s a it’s a it’s a very interesting position just because Ohio State

I don’t want to say uses it differently than other teams, but maybe doesn’t have to lean on it as much as other teams. But the things that they can do, I don’t think it’s any lesser of a group just because the numbers maybe don’t pop up.

Stephen Means (03:14.495)

So, Andrew, why is Matt Clare here then? Why would a guy who had 51 catches last year come here?

Andrew (03:22.594)

Well, I go back to something that Kenan Bailey said and Kenan was talking about in the recruiting process. And obviously he means in the transfer process as well that he tells kids it’s not an Ohio State receiver school. It’s not, you know, hey, you go to Ohio State and they only get receivers and they only produce receivers. One of the things that I thought that, I mean, look, obviously Kenan Bailey is going to, you know, hype his guys and promote his own guys. But one of the things that he mentioned was

2023 Marvin Harrison Jr. was the best receiver in college football and Cade Stover was second in targets. Now, obviously there was some mitigating circumstances there. Emeka Gubuk is healthy the whole year, he’s probably second on that team. But I think he was illustrating that point to say, if you’re good enough, you’ll get touches. If you’re good enough, you’ll get targets. If you’re good enough, we will get you the ball. And I think that is one of the reasons why

You know, Max Claire’s here because I think if he’s probably looking at this going, you know what I can demand my share of the ball. And like he had mentioned, Max Claire is not going to see a double team all year. And if he does, it’s because the defense screwed up. Max Claire is not going to be game planned against by other teams in a significant way like he was at Purdue. Like. Steven, you covered this game. Think back to like.

Ohio State Notre Dame in 2022. It was cover Michael Mayer and don’t let anybody else get open because there’s nobody else that can beat you on the outside. That was kind of Max Clair at Purdue. And now it’s all of a sudden, hey, what if Michael Mayer was on that Ohio State team? And it’s like, okay, well, wow, that’s crazy. Well, that’s kind of what this is. So he wanted to win a national championship. And I think the idea of not being

the focal point, I think that that really helps because, you we talk about the numbers and everything like that all the time. The numbers might not be there, but the opportunities might be there as well.

Stephen Means (05:35.583)

That was my favorite part of the Kenan Bailey segment. It’s like, listen, you can go everywhere else and you can get doubled. You can come here and you can play one on one. Good luck with other defense is figuring that out. Cause it’s true, right? Max Slavin said he could have gone anywhere more than likely. In fact, he could have gone to places who have used their tight ends more in a featured way when everything is perfectly a-okay. You mentioned Notre Dame over the past couple of years. I mean, he could have went to Iowa.

They always have good tight ends. Penn State just had the Mackie award winner. I mean, you could have went to Bowling Green. They had the guy who should have won the Mackie award.

Andrew (06:12.076)

Yeah, like think like think about all the places that have produced like great tight ends Notre Dame, Iowa, Penn State, like all these other programs. And Ohio State doesn’t have that track record with tight ends, but exactly right.

Stephen Means (06:22.355)

because they don’t use them. Because Jeremy Ruckard and Luke Farrell were pretty quality tight ends here. Kate Stover is a pretty quality tight, they just didn’t use them. So that was my question to Max Clair, it’s like, hey man, in a professional way, I didn’t just go, why the heck would you come here when you could literally have gone to Georgia and been Brock Bowers? Maybe I should have asked him like that, but I didn’t. Why are you here when you could be anywhere? And it came back to Stefan.

This is more about his development as a tight end and him getting numbers again. This is about PFF. again, Kenan Bailey’s funny. He was like, I don’t know what PFF to watch it. He looked like a pretty good blocker to me. And he mentioned Max Claire was the best blocker in the country. So I don’t know what his PFF grades are, but I don’t know what PFF be watching, but Max Claire, awesome receiver, Max Claire, not really a great blocker. And he’s going to be doing a lot more of that than catching balls this year. And

from the way he was talking, that sounds like that was more important to him than having another year somewhere where he could have 50, 60 catches, because he’s capable of doing that. But can you do all the other things that you’re going to be doing a lot more often in your career, whether it’s in college or post-career in the NFL? Can you do that at a high level as well?

Stefan Krajisnik (07:38.586)

Well, and I don’t know exactly what his eligibility is or when, when he would go to the NFL, if he were to pursue that, I don’t have it in front of me, but when he goes to the NFL scouts have that he can catch passes and make plays in the field, right? Like just go watch it. Purdue tape. What do they not have film of great blocking. So come to Ohio state, develop that. And even if your numbers are down.

All you have to do is tell an NFL scout. Yeah. My role was different in this offense, but I developed in this way. And if you’re concerned about me catching passes, then here’s my film for 2023 or 2024. should say like that that’s the end of the conversation. There, there isn’t like, there’s nothing he can do this year where NFL teams are to be like, Oh, he can’t catch passes. He’s a blocking tight end only. Like you saw what he could do in an offense that needed him. And now he’s in an offense that has.

Jeremiah Smith, Cardinal, Tate and Brandon in this along with two or three really good running backs. Like that’s just the reality of the situation. And NFL scouts don’t just look at box scores. Like they talk to people, they watch film, they analyze things, they know what they’re looking for in a tight end. So like not every NFL tight end is Travis Kelsey either. That’s, you know, breaking records and cats and touchdowns and things like that.

There’s a lot of NFL tight ends who don’t catch a lot of passes. Like you have to be very versatile to make it in that league. So sure, you could go somewhere and catch 50 passes again, but you’ve shown that you can do that. Come show that you can develop the rest of your game and be a more all-around, versatile player when NFL teams come calling. It makes a lot of sense to me, to be quite honest.

Stephen Means (09:24.437)

He’s a red shirt junior this year. I love that nature is healing. We’re getting further away from that COVID season where the NCAA unnecessarily gave everybody that extra year. So now we have no idea if guys have seven years left or they have 25 years left in their career. He got here in 22, he red shirted cause he only played two games and he’s in his fourth year of college football. He’s a red shirt junior. Very perfect. That’s how it should be.

You get five years to play four seasons.

Anything else on Max Claire? That was going to always be the focus of this in terms of, don’t know, Andrew, let’s review. Let’s review Stephen’s statement from before. I said 35. Was that the quote was 35 or was it 30? Okay, fine.

Andrew (10:11.822)

30, 30, you said assuming no injuries. So that obviously goes for, know, Jeremiah, goes for Carnell, goes for Innis and it also goes for Max.

Stephen Means (10:22.025)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we revise that a little bit?

Andrew (10:27.522)

I don’t know if I want, it depends what the revision is.

Stephen Means (10:29.781)

The revision is...

So just to use last year as an example, JT had 12 and a half sacks, but how many of those came in games that they had to earn the right to play in?

is what I’m saying is because they might play 16 football games this year. So because of that, if he gets to, I don’t know if they’re gonna play as slowly as they did last year though, they might. That’s part of the issue. Cause like they played super slow last year. So if you look at some of these guys numbers, Marvin Harrison Jr. had as many catches as Jeremiah Smith did in 2022, but he played.

13 games in comparison to Jeremiah Smith playing 16 years because they played so slow. I want to revise it to I’ll keep the same number of catches. Everything else the same. I just want to put in games that are they are guaranteed to play it. So 13 games because if they get the 1617 game, okay. Yeah, because if they get this 1617 games and he has 32 catches like well, yeah, he barely got over it because they played 1617 games. So I’ll say they’re gonna play 13 games. Okay, cuz

Andrew (11:28.142)

I’m okay with third, I’m okay with third floor, I’m okay with third.

Stephen Means (11:40.757)

Worst case scenario, they don’t make the playoff, but they’re playing in a bowl game somewhere. So he doesn’t get 30 catches and 13 games. That’s all I’m saying. Everything else we can keep the same.

Anything else on Claire that maybe stood out, that someone else said about him or he had to say about himself?

Andrew (12:01.006)

So this wasn’t maybe what he had to say, obviously, but it really wasn’t even sometimes what Keenan had to say. Stephane wrote the story at the Combine where Lathan Ransom basically went to Keenan Bailey and was like, hey, that guy hits the portal, get him. And I asked Keenan about that specifically and he kind of laughed and went, well, Caleb Downs was part of that too. basically just said, don’t give Lathan all the credit.

Kenan said that he has dinner on Fridays, you know, with, you know, the DBs. so I don’t know, you know, that’s, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s what I was going to say. I don’t know what that looks like, but that’s an interesting, sidebar for another time. So, you know, he basically said, you know, Hey, look, you know, this is somebody that they identified. And I said, obviously you have to do your own evaluations of, of the guy, but how much does that matter? And he goes, it matters a ton.

Stephen Means (12:38.015)

Wonder what that conversation’s like.

Andrew (12:59.756)

when you have guys on your team that are getting ready to game plan, I’m going up against them. So yeah, I just thought that that was interesting that for a lot of different reasons, one for the Max Clair purpose, right? You know, one, because we’re talking about, you know, Max Clair being on Ohio State and what Ohio State saw in him. But two, just because that’s kind of the world that we live in of college football now, where it’s like, you know, you go look at some transfers and I’m curious, this would be a good maybe

research project for somebody across the nation to like, what percentage of transfers transferred to a school that they played? Because I’m curious like how much when other teams are looking in the film room and looking game plan and going, man, this guy was a real pain in the butt to game plan, even though Ohio State won that game 45 to nothing. I wonder how much that seed got planted in their head of just, let’s get this guy now.

Stephen Means (13:53.375)

Are you asking how often do teams tamper at the end of football games when they’re just shaking hands and saying good game?

Andrew (13:57.986)

Well, it’s not even it’s not even tamper. Sometimes it might be, you know, hey, we got a game plan for this guy and blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it could be tamper, but it also could be man. We didn’t game plan for this guy and he killed us and we didn’t think this guy was going to be that good and he killed us. Who in the world was that that that’s an interesting concept that I’m I’m curious about. I mean, he had two catches for 15 yards. Ohio State shut him down, but.

Stephen Means (14:19.861)

Yeah, and then you go into do and then at the end of the game you will enter Right, but then you introduce yourself at the end of the game and say hey man Think about us when you go on the portal because they’ve won one game Yeah So you’re essentially asking I Wonder how much teams tampering college football. That’s like asking in 2008 how many schools in the south are paying kids under the table? But they’re bag men that can play football for them. It’s of course they’re tampering

Stefan Krajisnik (14:20.549)

tampering.

Andrew (14:31.191)

yeah, you do the quick handshake for somebody? Yeah, I know how the game is played.

Stephen Means (14:49.257)

You think this is all there’s kids going into the portal with non-contact tags. How do you get a non-contact tag unless you’ve already talked to a kid and that’s not saying Ohio state tempered with Max Claire.

Andrew (15:03.948)

Everybody tampers, but I’m not saying they did it here.

Stephen Means (15:05.725)

There isn’t everybody tempers except the team you cover. That’s journalism. That’s sports writing 101. Everybody tempers with the team you cover. But OK, I just I I was refreshed by the way Max Clare talked about this and because obviously everybody was going to ask Kevin Keenan Bailey everything under the sun about him as a receiving threat because you see 51 catches for 685 yards before touchdowns for a guy who had 22 catches the year before that. That’s automatically what you think is. Well, Ohio State’s never had a receiving threat like at tight end quite like Max Clare.

How much is he going to get the ball? And you have to remind yourself, whoa, whoa, whoa.

back up a little bit. This is Ohio State and they spit out first round wide receivers and I know they just lost one, but they’ve got three more cooking on the roster, two of which are already pretty established that they’re going to be first round draft picks one day. There might not be room for 51 catches for Max Clair to have this year. So I was hoping he didn’t come into, we talked to them last Thursday. I was hoping he didn’t come into that.

media session or come to a house, they thinking that that’s what was going to be. He was going to get maximized as a receiver. So to hear him talk more about the blocking elements and talk about how Keenan Bailey was telling him the things even he didn’t want to hear along with the things he did want to hear was more refreshing because yes, the receiving threat is there, but so are some of the other things. Okay. Let’s say again, we’re going really short with some of these cause I promise you the two hour pods are coming back. I think Stefan and Andrew are getting real comfortable.

with these short pods, don’t get too comfortable, because they’re gonna start getting long again here real soon. So let’s take a break and then we’ll get into the rest of the tight end in the Ohio State roster on Buckeye Talk. And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Kreistich, and Andrew Gillis. Stefan, who do you wanna go next? We got three other intriguing guys, plus I think there’s two true freshmen on the roster. I might be wrong about that. I know it’s at least one. Yeah, there’s two of them. But Stefan, where you wanna go next?

Stefan Krajisnik (17:09.04)

Let’s go to Bennett Christian next, because I hung out around him and listened to him talk, maybe more so than some of other guys.

Stephen Means (17:13.042)

Okay.

Stefan Krajisnik (17:18.72)

Fun fact, I guess is Bennett Christian has the only reception touchdown from one of these quarterbacks on the roster. It was the 50 yard, was that Western Michigan game? I if the yard cash from Julian saying, so you take that play with a grain of salt. mean, it is what it is, but I think bigger picture is, you know, Bennett Christian is probably one of those guys that worked with Julian saying a good amount last year, you know, in practice and things of that nature, because he was behind.

Stephen Means (17:28.617)

was, it was indeed.

Stefan Krajisnik (17:47.664)

You know, Wilkess, Merrick and G Scott on the depth chart, at least, you know, at the start of the year, he started emerging as it, as the year went on, but, you know, he’s probably one of the guys that’s, that’s pretty comfortable with Julian saying. So I think that’s interesting. I also think he maybe kind of gets lost in the shuffle. thought he was really good last year, man. Like I thought he did a lot of things, especially in the comfortable playoff when he got a bit more comfortable and. You know, it wasn’t. I think early in the year, you kind of saw him kind of learning and earning his reps. I think at the end of the year.

You saw him really come along and play pretty well. The Notre Dame game. mean, you can go back and he was a beast in that game, man. He was delivering some pretty crucial blocks. So I’m excited to see not only what the next step in his game is, but just the different ways that Ohio State tries to use him this year. I think he’s really talented. I think he’s really good. And I think he’s, he’s got a case to be the best blocking tight end on this team. think well, Cas America is really good, but Bennett Christian.

Showed at the end of the year that he’s right up there. And I think he’s a guy that he is going to play more than I think the average person would suggest just because he kind of gets lost in a shuffle. You probably didn’t realize how much he even played last year, but he played a good amount down the stretch. So I think he can barely really like some I think Ryan Day really likes him. I think he developed really well last year and I think there’s another step to his game. So I think he’s one of the one of the reliable options in that room.

I think right now he’s probably still number three on the depth chart would not surprise me at all if he ended up at number two, if he ended up getting a lot of reps, if he ended up making some big catches this year. Nothing would surprise me with what I think the ceiling is for Bennett Christian.

Stephen Means (19:35.317)

I think for a guy who had to sit out all the 2023 season, Andrew, because he took a band substance that he didn’t know he was taking. It was one of those. He wasn’t cheating. was one of those. I took a supplement and ended up having something in it that I’m not allowed to take. didn’t know that. I reported so he could practice, but he couldn’t play. So he essentially lost a year in 2023 for a guy who played 10 snaps in 2022 as a true freshman. Didn’t play in 2023 to come back and play 234, 35 snaps.

and 2024 and essentially when we’re talking about the depth of this room, I think this is more of a Bennett Christian conversation than it is a Jelani Kerman conversation because he does what you need your third tight end to be able to do. It’s less about his potential as a receiving threat and more about what he brings in the blocking, especially in a world where you don’t have a six foot five, 240 pound quarterback. And so how you go about getting third in one, how you go about getting second in

goal from the one yard line might look a little different than what we saw with Will Howard.

Andrew (20:39.554)

Yeah, Bennett Christian’s an interesting kind of conversation here. And I’m sure we’ll talk about somebody else who can kind of play into this, like, I’m, I don’t know if he’s going to be the number two tight end on the team just because I think Will Kazmarek is right there. And I think, you know, like Will Kazmarek got praised by Keenan Bailey is the best blocking tight end in the country. Now again,

What is Keenan Bailey gonna say? He’s an average blocker and he’s an average everything, He’s gonna hype up his guy, but I do think there’s the obvious truth to him saying how good of a blocker he is. So that to me is probably maybe the more...

long term battle at tight end to its Bennett Christian or Will Casmeric, because I think with Jelani, which is probably what a couple of people are thinking, and they’re curious what we think about him like Jelani might be more of like a specialty type tight end like you put him in the game and there’s, know, you got something cooking for him in the passing attack or something like that with Bennett and will I think those are two guys where again, Stefan is 100 % right.

You look at their snap counts last year and you start to go, they played a lot more than I thought. And like, Bennett Christian played.

Stephen Means (21:59.701)

Will Kazmeric missed four games with a broken arm. So per game, Will Kazmeric played 24.8 snaps per game while Bennett Christian played 14.7. So there is still a.

Andrew (22:03.415)

Yes.

Yes.

Andrew (22:09.966)

Yeah, Will Kazmarek also out snapped Bennett Christian despite playing in four less games. yeah, I think Will Kazmarek is that guy just because when you need a blocking tight end, know, if you’re playing a team with an elite defensive end or, you you want to have, you know, one of those sift blocks where the tight end starts on one side of the formation and then comes across and kicks out an end or kicks out a tackle or whatever. That’s what you want.

Stephen Means (22:15.487)

Correct.

Stephen Means (22:34.663)

I hate those vlogs. I hate those vlogs.

Andrew (22:38.562)

Chasmeric in that role four. So yeah, you know, those that to me though, is I think the tight end battle it’s it’s who can get on the field consistently is the tight end two, because I think we’re all in agreement that Max Clair is going to be far and away, you know, the number one tight end. So it’s, to me, it’s Chasmeric and Christian.

Stephen Means (22:57.087)

So where does that leave Jilani? Is Max Claire Stefan, is his arrival?

Stephen Means (23:07.967)

for the sake of a extremist conversation, is it good or bad for Jelani Thurman?

Stefan Krajisnik (23:22.384)

Probably bad, I guess. I would almost like, if we’re comparing it to 2024, probably the same. He remains the fourth guy.

Stephen Means (23:31.775)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (23:35.465)

think you can make a case that it’s the best thing that could have happened for July.

Stephen Means (23:41.289)

Because what’s the conversation about Jelani Thurman right now? Max Claire is not on this roster. Like what would you, if I said what are your expectations for Jelani Thurman right now? Max Claire doesn’t exist. What language are you using? Give me your spiel.

Andrew (23:48.461)

Kenzalani be a starter.

Stefan Krajisnik (23:57.142)

he would have to be the leading receiver among the Titans, I think.

Andrew (24:00.706)

Yes. I think that’s right. I think we would be saying he’s got the most athleticism. He’s got the most upside in terms of the passing attack of Bennett, of Will, of Nate Roberts, of Max LeBlanc, like of all the guys that you’re talking about. He’s the guy that you would say throw him the ball. So I think we would be kind of placing expectations on him of being that number one tight end receiving or one for one receiver tight end.

Stephen Means (24:31.529)

and they would be based on eye test and a recruiting ranking. That’s now three years.

Andrew (24:36.11)

It would be based on trade. Yes, we would be based on, hey, I saw him have a nice catch in fall camp in August of 2024. And he looked good in the red zone in that one segment. And then he’s six foot seven and 260 pounds throwing the dang ball. That’s that’s that’s 100 % what it would be based on.

Stephen Means (24:43.519)

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Means (24:54.931)

And instead, he’s the fourth time.

He’s a good deaf piece. It’s a conversation about the room as a whole.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:04.848)

What’s his eligibility?

Stephen Means (25:06.601)

Jelani’s in year three. he’s a red shirt, so I’ll...

Andrew (25:08.465)

Yeah, he is a redshirt fapper.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:09.26)

Yeah, I actually think Stephen I actually think I agree with you like this is another year for him to grow behind the scenes and no one’s talking about him and he’s not gonna have much a role and You know we can do this again next year and and you know there’ll be some people who don’t want to have the conversation because it’s like I’m not doing another year of what if Jelani Thurman, but you give him a whole year of developing behind the scenes making a few plays like he did last year and maybe

I don’t want to say like this is the plan all along, but maybe 2026 is just when it was meant to be for July.

Andrew (25:44.312)

So that’s the thing. Stephen’s onto something because I think like Wilcas Marek is in his fifth and final year of college football and Max Clair is entering his fourth year and he technically has another year. I don’t think Max Clair came to Ohio State with the operating assumption that he was going to be here for two years. I would probably bet you that maybe this was a one and done. We’ll see. I mean, we’ll see how the year plays out. We’ll see how things are old. But I presented to say

Stephen Means (26:05.528)

Stephen Means (26:10.387)

Yeah, cause this is, that’s not, this is with all due respect to Max Clair, this is not Clint Sean Judkins transferring from Ole Miss. is, yeah. This is a guy, he was very productive last year. He was also kind of in a position where it’s Max Clair or nothing. And even getting him the ball didn’t really produce much from a team perspective. Cause Purdue was that bad. Right.

Andrew (26:14.21)

There is.

Andrew (26:17.942)

Yeah, it’s certainly not that, but I also, yeah, it’s...

Andrew (26:24.973)

Yes.

Andrew (26:35.47)

There’s more variables there, I think with Judkins. Judkins was kind of just like a hired gun and you kind of knew that’s what it was. With Claire, it’s, okay, what does the tight end class look like? Okay, how good of a year did he have? Okay, what is it? Yeah. So now he’s got the ability to go pro at the end of the year. But what I’m saying, the ability on the field and the ability literally to go pro. But I guess what I’m saying is there’s a possibility that Kazmeric and Claire are gone at the end of this year, at end of the 2025 season.

Stephen Means (26:41.108)

Right.

Stephen Means (26:47.327)

Correct.

Andrew (27:04.78)

And then you’re talking about a tight end room that has Bennett Christian who would be entering year five, Jelani Thurman who would be entering year four. And then Max LeBlanc year three. The depth chart would pretty well open for Jelani if he wants to take it. Right. If Jelani wants to say, I’m the best receiving tight end, I’m the best overall tight end on this team. Give me those reps. Give me that role.

The opportunity is there, whereas this year you bring in Max Clair and I think we kind of know what it is, but next year that opportunity might be here for Jelani. So this year could just be a, you know, Jelani who played what, 165 snaps last year. You could be in for a similar year, maybe where you put him in specific situations in short yardage where he can be kind of a big body threat on fourth and two if you want to go, you know, more tight end personnel or, know,

big package, big body, whatever you want to call it, put him in the goal line. There can be kind of a special role for him. And then in year four, you would hope the goal, at least for Jelani, would be, okay, let’s see if he can break out.

Stephen Means (28:16.191)

Keenan Bailey was talking about, it seems like it’s finally starting to click for Jelani there, a moment where it’s like, yes, he’s finally got it. I think you look at him and you just put the pressure and the expectations on him. And I think sometimes you have to take a step back and remember that Titan is a significantly developmental, it’s the most developmental position of any position in college football, even more than offensive line is.

And the reason why is there’s a physical development you have to go through. You are trying to learn how to be a receiver and an offensive lineman at the same time. And you’ve probably never played the position before. Cause most tight ends in high school are just bigger receivers that get ball throws to them unless they’re coming from prep schools, right? So like we can talk about, Luke Montgomery’s physical development on offensive line, but he’s also been an offensive lineman his entire life. So there are just certain.

true tricks of the trade that he just comes to college already knowing. John didn’t play tight end in high school, at least not in a traditional sense. So there’s that element of it. He’s only played 189 snaps in his career and the language.

that you use with him, with Max Clare being here versus Max Clare not being here, those are opposite into the spectrum. We just went from, oh, Jelani’s gotta take a jump. Oh, Jelani’s gotta be ready to go. Oh, Jelani’s gotta be ready to take on. G-Scott played 548 snaps last year.

We, you both just explained in the world where Max Claire is not here as if Jelani Thurman needs to be ready to take 350 of those three, 548 snaps from G Scott and add them on to the 189 that he, excuse me, 165 he had last year. Like he has to take the jump from a guy who we thought he’d be third. He ended up being fourth and now he’s got to be, go be number one simply because of recruiting ranking and

Stephen Means (30:20.795)

I test and traits versus yeah, Jelani is the fourth tight end. This room is deep. You know, maybe he’s a goal line threat like he was this year. A short yardage, fourth and one situation type threat. And he can continue to develop for a guy where he’s in year three and maybe he doesn’t be in the second tight end on his roster this year. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I just know the expectations are drastically different from what we would be saying if Max Clair is not here. And so

Yeah, it’s a bad thing in terms of, oh no, there was 548 reps to eat up and now Max Clare is probably gonna take 400 of those. Or he might end up taking all of them. That sucks, because you wanna play. But it also means that when we were in there on Thursday talking with the linebackers and tight ends, a year ago, Jelani Thurman sits at a table, 40 people walk up to him. There was like four people at him this year.

You don’t think that’s like a stress reliever for him?

Andrew (31:17.773)

Better?

better, so what you’re saying, better short term or better long term, worse short term. I think that’s probably the best summation of that.

Stephen Means (31:23.933)

Yeah. Yeah, because we’re not going to. Jelani Thurman doesn’t have to be the ultimate version of Jelani Thurman. It would be nice if it happens, but there’s no added pressure because the top guy in the room left because they just replaced the top guy in a room with a guy who might be better than what G. Scott is. And so I think for his long term development would actually matters. I think that’s the best possible thing for Jelani Thurman. While it also created.

I mean, how many other rooms right now can say they have four guys?

Stephen Means (31:59.369)

Corner can’t even say that. We think at corner with Devin Sanchez and Aaron Scott, but they haven’t played football. Kenan Bailey said it all for the guys in his room have played meaningful snaps in high leverage games. Now for three of those guys, a little bit more meaningful, right? Cause Max Clair was, it was just kind of me, but he’s played against Ohio state before he’s played against Oregon before Johnny Thurman.

had two big moments, one of which was against Indiana for a touchdown and the other one was against Penn State. Bennett Christian, as you mentioned, Stefan, he’s the only guy on the roster who’s got a touchdown pass from the guy we all think is going to be the starting quarterback while he’s also, him and Will Casmeric played meaningful snaps in the entire college football playoff run. There’s not another room who can say they have four guys who have played high leverage snaps in college football.

Stefan Krajisnik (32:49.092)

Yeah, I we can joke about Max Claire and how bad that Purdue team was last year. I they were on the road against a ranked Illinois team playing in overtime. He had six catches and 133 yards in that game. He’s played high leverage snaps as well.

Stephen Means (32:56.692)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:03.684)

This will be my second straight pod do an old man yells at the yells at cloud.

Stephen Means (33:09.001)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:12.784)

I like the Jelani story because it’s like we hate so much that you know, you see it all around the country. People come in as a freshman or sophomore. They don’t have playing time and then they bolt and it’s like Jelani is a good story. He’s staying even in a year where you know, we think he’s just still going to be fourth on the depth chart because he wants to develop and maybe 2026 is his year. So maybe it doesn’t happen for Jelani this year, but like

Maybe this is a classic, good old fashioned college football developmental story where a guy commits to school, he comes in, takes maybe longer than he would have hoped, but he gets there eventually. And that can be good. That can still exist in college football.

Stephen Means (34:03.485)

I would have to look because again, this is admitting that because we cover Ohio State, it’s very easy to just live in the Ohio State bubble and go Ohio States. They’re when they’re doing well, everything is perfect. And when they’re doing bad, everything is an absolute mess. They should tear it all down and burn it to the ground. Right. There’s never when you live in the bubble, you can’t, don’t necessarily see the forest or the trees very well.

But this team does have a lot of guys who fit that description of like, why is Kenyatta Jackson still here in year four? There is a lot of guys who are in Kenyatta Jackson’s position where the moment Jack and JT said they were coming back, I’m gone. That’s a kid from South Florida. Same high school as Jeremiah Smith, Shaminah Madada. I love saying that. Shaminah Madada. It’s just such a long name with its tongue twister to it.

You don’t think he could have gone to Florida State or Florida or Miami or anywhere else in the South when he saw Jack and JT came back. You don’t think Kaden Curry could have gone to Indiana the moment he saw Jack and J. You don’t think CJ Hicks could have bolted for literally any school. This is a former five star recruit we’re talking about. You don’t think he could have left. And Johnny Thurman, I mean, his high school team ages left to go to South Carolina. His high school quarterback, Aaron Nolan, was here for less time than he was.

He was here for a year and then bolted. Now that one makes sense. He had a fifth quarterback on the depth chart and at best you were going to be the third best quarterback this year. So I get that. Quarterbacks a little bit different, but Ohio State does have an abnormally large number of guys where in this era of NIL and hopping the transfer portal, the moment it’s clear, it seems like you don’t have a clear path to the playing field would leave. And so you do have to kind of salute the culture a little bit that

These guys are sticking through all that and are still here. Now it helps when you win a national championship. But definitely help. But this is pre national championship and all these guys are around. So yeah, kudos to Jelani Thurman for sticking it through and like who knows what decision he makes coming out this spring because it doesn’t seem like Ohio State is completely done adding guys in the portal yet. Cause they missed kind of the winter portal, but also it doesn’t seem like they’re done losing guys to the portal. So we’ll see what happens, but I just know that.

Stephen Means (36:21.663)

There’s a world where we’re going Jelani or bust. And we don’t have to do that anymore. Andrew, you mentioned on the linebacker pod that you had spent some time talking with some of the freshmen over to the side. So this is your moment. This is kind of like your send off to they’re not recruits anymore. So they now belong to all of us. But what did those guys have to say about the first couple of months here on campus?

Andrew (36:47.406)

Well, that’s really funny because one of the things that I was doing as Nate Roberts was talking was talking to R. Vel Rees off to the side. So I didn’t.

Stephen Means (36:57.109)

I told yeah, I told Stefan that that you were like moving in on his territory.

Andrew (37:01.41)

Well, it was really funny because so this so this this happens, right? Like I’m talking to Arvel and I like turn around and I look behind me and I see Stefan walk up to Arvel just to say hi real quick. And I see them laughing and I’m just like imagining like Stefan being like, yeah, what’d you tell that jerk? What’d you do? Maybe I didn’t say jerk in my head, but I’m just imagining Stefan being like, don’t listen to him. Yeah, listen to me. Yeah, like talk to me next time. Like, don’t go to him. What are you doing?

See, I was curious. I was...

Stefan Krajisnik (37:33.032)

I I’m not territorial of the guys we cover. Unless it’s RL Rees.

Stephen Means (37:36.315)

I’m very territorial of the guys we cover. Yeah, yeah, I’m very territorial of the guys we cover.

Andrew (37:41.386)

the you know, look, I mean, obviously, these guys were not talking on the microphone. So I’m not, you know, I don’t want to say what, you know, I talked about with Riley and with TJ and with our Val, I was asking some recruiting stuff. Just just kind of like general curious about this. Tell me about, you know, your position. Tell me about what your position is like with some of these other kids. So I actually didn’t get a chance to pull Nate off to the side. It was a

freshman specific and then our veil line back your day for me. But in terms of like Nate Roberts, you know, I know when you talk about his decision, he was once committed to Notre Dame, he had to leave Oklahoma, like this is a kid who, you know, again, it kind of goes into the theme that you were just talking about where it was like, okay, he could be elsewhere. And he probably maybe could have a runway to playing somewhere in your

one is a depth player and maybe year two as like a decent contributor, if not a starter. But he came here and he came here as one of the nation’s best recruits. Davian St. Clair really liked him. So I’m curious to see what Nate’s going to do. It’s just not going to be in 2025. Brody Lennon’s not here right now. The other tight end. He’s not early enrolling. Nate Roberts is early enrolled, so he’s practicing and we’ll get Brody Lennon here in a couple of weeks at this point with

with the summer guys, the other five. yeah, not a ton to report from the freshman tight end, Nate Roberts, just because where the step chart is, where things are headed. If he plays, he is either Brock Bauer, Sam Laporta, Michael Mayer, tight end, or something terrible has happened at the top of Ohio State’s step chart.

Stephen Means (39:36.885)

So in the name of Jelani Thurman, is this a guy where I’ll use Jeremy Rucker as the example, Jeremy Rucker had a role in year two in 2019. Jelani Thurman, not so much, was tied at number four. Is Nate Roberts more like Jeremy Rucker or is he more like Jelani in terms of both of those, all those guys, top 200 recruits, Jeremy Rucker in year two had a role.

Andrew (39:44.963)

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Means (40:02.707)

Johnny Thurman’s entering year three and we’re still talking about him as developmental guy. Should we expect Nate Roberts to compete for 250 plus snaps in 2026?

Andrew (40:12.918)

I think so. I think so because especially like operating under the assumption, well, Will, Will Casmeric is going to be gone. But like if Max Clair leaves, I mean, you’re talking about a room that’s going to have been a Christian, Jelani Thurman, Max LeBlanc will be older than him. He will have a year on him. And then it’s Nate Roberts and Brody Lennon are right there. And I just said that Nate Roberts obviously is an early enrollee and Brody Lennon is not.

I think when you look at maybe their recruiting backgrounds and when you look at kind of what they were asked to do in high school and where they were, you know, on Ohio State’s pecking order in terms of the recruiting chart, they very clearly like Nate Roberts a lot. And again, if it’s Christian Thurman, Roberts LeBlanc, it’s not crazy to me that one, he would, I mean, I think worst case scenario at that point, you’re talking fourth tight end, but him being the third tight end on the 2026 Ohio State team.

behind Bennett Christian and Jelani Thurman is not crazy. And as we’re talking about now, the third tight end is going to have a role. The third tight end is going to have a job. And then it’s just, okay, how much of a role do you want to rely on with that third tight end? Is that somebody that you feel comfortable playing a good chunk of the time? Is that somebody you need to protect in their roles? There’s a lot of different ways that this can go, but Nate Roberts certainly

I think when you look at the priority that Ohio State made him, he was the number 10 overall tight end in the composite rankings, I believe. We’ll see. Roberts, I think, is a really, really good tight end. And, know, just kind of talking to Tavian and some of the other guys during the recruiting process last year, they really like him. So, yeah, I think him having a role in 2026 is absolutely on the table. I just.

With all due respect to Nate Roberts, I don’t know what kind of fan club you would have to be leading of his to believe that he’s gonna have a role in 2025. It’s just the way that things work for tight ends. It’s just the way that this is gonna work out for this tight end room specifically.

Stephen Means (42:12.863)

Maybe that’s the way it should work at all positions. If you’re playing.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:16.718)

Not every freshman is Jeremiah Smith.

Stephen Means (42:20.213)

But that’s no but that’s kind of point if you are Jeremiah Smith and Denzel Burke Which one are you if you are starting as a true freshman? Something has either gone terribly right or terribly wrong with your room

Andrew (42:20.526)

Exactly right.

Stephen Means (42:34.675)

That’s, there’s no in between. There’s not the plan to start true freshmen, typically. The guy’s gotta, you have to have no choice either because he is telling you, have no choice but to play me. I’m better than everybody. Or you have no choice but to play me, because I’m better than everybody. And those are two very different tones. Okay, let’s wrap with this. Unless anybody else has any other Titan things they wanna bring up.

Stephen Means (43:00.693)

Stefan, do you think you would have been a tie man if you played football in college?

Stefan Krajisnik (43:05.807)

I guess, yeah, probably. I’m like six, three, but I’m not particularly fast.

Stephen Means (43:08.543)

What was this, this or was it? What realistically?

Neither are tight ends.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:15.322)

That’s what I’m saying. That’s why I said, yeah, I’d probably play like I’m six three, but I would not play receiver.

Stephen Means (43:17.079)

yeah.

The question is, could you throw in 40 pounds of muscle? Like, does your frame handle-

Stefan Krajisnik (43:26.512)

Maybe. Give me Coach Mick.

Stephen Means (43:30.175)

for like give Mick to you for three months and let’s see what happens.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:33.072)

I would, it is funny, like you see people come in as a freshman and it’s like, here’s a before and after of like three months in a college weight room. Like what could Mick do with the average guy? Like if I walk in, like what, like would he look at me and be like, I can make you 6′3, 250, pure muscle.

Stephen Means (43:39.145)

Yep.

Stephen Means (43:48.885)

I’d read that.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:52.088)

I probably have to work pretty well with the nutritionist, with the dietitians. There’d be a lot. But it’s like, I would love, I guess it’s just, I’m describing a personal trainer, I suppose. But it’s like, but not this level though.

Andrew (43:52.95)

Okay, so, yep.

Stephen Means (43:56.521)

Yeah, like what if.

Stephen Means (44:04.213)

But this guy, yeah, this guy has a six, he has a six, seven figure job to do this and an entire team. If a guy walked in off the street, and Ohio State would never do this, no program would ever do this, but still, because we keep trying to get them to do a pro day and they won’t do it with us. But also, I don’t know how many guys want, I would love to do the pro day, but there’s a lot of people who wouldn’t, get that. No, I don’t wanna do that, I don’t wanna write, I wanna do their side of things.

Andrew (44:26.156)

I said we need to do the media pro day. How many words can you type in a minute?

Stephen Means (44:33.525)

Yeah, that’s not fun. That’s not fun. I can, I don’t. Yeah. Yeah, man. I would say, I would wonder if, if I came in and I’d spent the two and a half months they were in winter workouts, I am interested at the average human being who does not play college sports. If they went through those two and a half months, the before and after, what would that be?

Stefan Krajisnik (44:37.614)

I need more risk of injury.

Stefan Krajisnik (45:01.474)

I honestly think the toughest part would be like me not quitting. Like there is a mental aspect where like when you get toward the end of those workouts, like you got to grind through it. I don’t know if I got that dog in me.

Stephen Means (45:08.501)

Mmm

Stephen Means (45:13.685)

Yeah.

Andrew (45:16.812)

Well, it’s also it’s not even the workouts. Like, have you ever like read these stories about like the, you know, there are kids that will go to bed at 10 and they have alarms set for two and five so they could eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It’s not just an on the field thing. It’s like, yeah, one of my buddies.

Stephen Means (45:28.799)

That’s what it is, yeah.

Like which way do you have to go with it? Because Will Howard had the lose way. So there were, I have to eat less. There’s other guys on the It’s not just offensive linemen. There’s like Aaron Scott and Malik Hartford who were twigs when they got here who have to eat more. So that might play a role in it. Mick put you on a plan when you’re not allowed to eat and now you’re always hungry? Or is he putting you on the plan where it’s like, yo, you need to go to Five Guys because you need another.

Andrew (45:37.654)

Right. Yeah.

Andrew (45:51.79)

Yeah, that’s what I was, yeah.

Andrew (46:01.566)

Yeah. Well, here’s the thing. It’s like these other like these athletes are like these high schoolers are coming in and they’re already in like better shape than just the general person, because one, they’re working out for their high school career. They’re 17 years old, but they’re they’re working out all the time. And also they’re Ohio State football players. So it’s like you’re taking somebody who it’s like, like, what do do at the gym? just some light lifting or like, I, you know, I run three miles or what it’s like just the most basic workout ever like

Stephen Means (46:01.589)

400 calories today.

Stefan Krajisnik (46:01.624)

lower, lower iron setting

Stephen Means (46:12.341)

when they’re 17 years old.

Andrew (46:30.616)

I was going to say like one of my friends, he went to South Carolina and like, he knew somebody like through his fraternity or something. And it was like, they had this, they like had a friend where it was like, if you saw him walking on campus without a protein shake or a protein bar or something like that, like he had to have it in his hand for the first year of his college career, or else you told somebody and that guy would get in trouble with the strength coach because he wanted him constantly eating and constantly doing. So it’s like,

It’s you ruin eating or like just because that’s the way that this has to go. Like Carter Lowe gained how much weight in his first few months here? Like it’s it’s crazy how much these could pain.

Stefan Krajisnik (47:12.058)

I hope they put me on the weight gain side. I can do it. That sounds awesome. It sounds awesome until you actually do it, but Lord, I just talking about Sonny Styles moving the line back and be like, well, he just needed to eat a cheeseburger. I was just sitting there like, eh, that sounds pretty good.

Stephen Means (47:16.223)

That sounds good and twitch. No it doesn’t. Yeah.

Andrew (47:25.666)

Well, that sounds good until you’re like, Yeah, I’m six. You said you’re sick three like, Yeah, I’m six, three x weight. think, you know, I’m okay. And then they’re going to do like the body fat percentage. And they’re going to be like, see, this is what we’re trying to get you out. And this is where you need to be at. And it’s just kind of humble everybody not to it’s going to humble every

Stephen Means (47:38.378)

What?

Stefan Krajisnik (47:40.176)

It is funny though, because I could look at my height and weight and be like, oh, I’m just like this guy. it’s just like, not, it was like when, this is not, let me make this clear, this is not a political take, but when Trump’s height and weight came out and it was like, oh, he’s basically Derek Henry. It’s like, yeah, on paper.

Andrew (47:49.964)

No, you’re not.

Stephen Means (47:50.229)

The composition is very different.

Stephen Means (47:58.005)

No, it’s Yeah, There’s a difference. Six, is 250. But I think I think the eating the having to gain weight would be worse. Because you think oh, I just have to eat. Yeah, but you’re eating that your own patient your own leisure versus to Andrew’s point. It’s two o’clock in the morning and your alarm goes off. No, it’s not to start your day. It’s because you have to go in the kitchen and go eat something real quick and then go back to bed.

Andrew (48:00.662)

Yeah, on paper theoretically, I’m... Yeah, it’s... yeah.

Andrew (48:22.542)

Well, they’re also not saying you need to eat 6,000 calories a day. All right, man, go get a cane yak at Cane’s twice a day. They’re saying, hey, you’ve got to eat 96 for ground beef, chicken, turkey, ham. Like it’s all protein. You’re not just eating like a bag of chips and being like, hey, look, I gained eight pounds. That’s not the way that works.

Stephen Means (48:29.493)

What if you died in the mood?

Stephen Means (48:41.465)

Well, sometimes it is. But sometimes it is just eating the bag of chips. Here’s the deal. It’s how often given what we do for a living where there’s days where we have to be places at eight o’clock in the morning and then there’s days we don’t have to be there till two o’clock. How often have you looked up it’s one thirty like, I haven’t eaten yet. They are not allowed to do that. They can’t do that.

Stefan Krajisnik (49:06.704)

It’s like, uh, think, I think it’s Michael Phelps that famously like eight, like 30 eggs, like every morning or something like that. It’s like, all right, that’s pretty crazy. Now. Yeah, I don’t know. I would love this. I would love to know what Mick would say if I was like, make me a tight end.

Stephen Means (49:11.571)

Yeah, that sounds fun.

Andrew (49:23.502)

So think about, you read that story about what Michael Phelps like ate, where he was eating like 10,000 calories or something ridiculous a day. He is six foot four, 198 pounds.

Stefan Krajisnik (49:24.608)

He’d be like, I don’t get paid enough for that.

Stephen Means (49:26.293)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (49:37.941)

But that 198 pounds is stronger than someone else. The average person who’s just like 64, 205 pounds. Because it’s, yeah, I would not like to do the eating.

Andrew (49:40.942)

Exactly,

Stefan Krajisnik (49:48.046)

If I ate 30 eggs and I had to swim, it would be a chaotic disaster.

Stephen Means (49:54.485)

That’s it, yeah, because then you gotta go do this. It’s like, dude, I’m 4,000 calories over what my intake could be. And now you want me to go jump around and do cardio on a mat at 630 in the morning? Yeah, that sounds, that’s tough. Though the other way around, if you’re not allowed to eat, you might faint. So I guess take it good with a bat.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:14.805)

Moral of the story, answer your question, guess tight end would probably be my position.

Stephen Means (50:19.881)

You think, what would your position be? Realistically, not what you want to do in your life.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:23.664)

I think it would be tight end.

Stephen Means (50:25.585)

Okay, what about you Andrew?

Andrew (50:28.342)

Long snapper.

Stephen Means (50:29.577)

That’s not, no, no, you gotta pick it, no, no. That’s actually the correct answer for everybody here.

Andrew (50:34.862)

Yeah, I mean, like, like, yeah, like, because I’m six one, like I played center in high school, but I don’t think six one at center is going to work. Yeah, I can go play it like, don’t know, some D2 D3 maybe. But six. Yeah, I mean, my like, if you could if Mick could just take four months and say we’re going to make you this position. I don’t know. I guess six one would probably be what?

Stephen Means (50:42.131)

Not here, not at the Big Ten school, Scott. That’s not gonna cut it.

Andrew (51:04.366)

Linebacker.

Stephen Means (51:06.293)

I mean, Yarville Reese is 64240 and see in.

Andrew (51:10.316)

Well, yeah, Steven, I’m,

Stephen Means (51:11.817)

You’re in a rough spot, yours would probably be safety.

But you’re not like, rangy.

Andrew (51:18.086)

I’m not look, dude, I don’t have I don’t care what dude, I don’t care if you train me with Usain Bolt and the greatest trainers in the world. I’m not playing corner receiver. I’m not fast enough. So it’s like I’m not fast enough to do that. So it’s like, all right, well, if I’m not playing line, and I’m not playing

Stephen Means (51:25.769)

No, you’re not. No.

Stephen Means (51:32.873)

You make it sound so depressing, like you have no hope.

Andrew (51:36.118)

I just said I could be the long snapper. I could be the starting long snapper.

Stephen Means (51:38.015)

That’s Mine would probably be running back just because I’m kind of built like those guys anyway. well. Well, the point of the of the matter is Mick hit us up. We’re ready. Come give us our scholarships. 614-350-3315 to reach our 399 after that’s tight ends. We’re back in the Woody this week. We’re talking with Ryan Day as you’re listening to this. No coordinators this week. I think we’ll get them next week. And in the spring game.

We’ll also talk with the corners and the safeties later this week. So obviously a lot of the conversations on Tuesday will be Devin Sanchez. And then later this week, just where the depth of the safety room is right now. Then student appreciation day practices on Saturday. So we’ll be in there for the full practice, which I think we’ll be getting a lot of information out of that. So we’ll get the text 614-353-315 two week free trial 399 after that for Stefan Christen and Andrew Gillis. I’m Stephen Means and that was Buckeye Talk.